Make it stop....currently $112.70 LTC ...I am distraught! Ack!


#1

Not looking good…I have the ‘supposed’ latest scrypt-pow hardware Bitmain L3+ 500mh at 800 watts and am

making NEGATIVE 7c per day AFTER electric at $112.71 LTC.

Indeed, we need a price hump badly, or there will be NO miners but mostly big centralized data halls and likely

in the LTC world, over 75% of them would be Bitmain, at this point in time, blowing all consumer miners out of

the water… and this is if Bitmain really wanted this distinction or not)

so this is not looking like it is gonna and well (as I hoard my 407 LTC) Ack!,
,
If they (Bitmain) are currently filling up data halls with new equipment (thus the difficulty increases on LTC)

then we are doubly screwed…

buy a miner, get into crypto, it will be fun they said, a hobby they said in 2013…yeah right …Ack!

FML

Searing


#2

Indeed, things happen. On the other hand, LTC is up a bit from the $4.00 we had forever there, so it’s still a net win.


#3

So my Bitmain L3+'s at 500mh and 800 watts at $120 LTC

are making 8c a day after electric. Living the dream! :slight_smile:

|24 hours|0.02325045 LTC|2.77 USD|2.69 USD|0.08 USD|
|7 days|0.16275318 LTC|19.37 USD|18.82 USD|0.55 USD|F
|30 days|0.69751362 LTC|83.00 USD|80.64 USD|2.36 USD|

FML

Searing


#4

Oh Bitmain’s “We didn’t put any memory in the chips so they can only do N=10” miners. Such sad little things. You should trade them for Titans :slight_smile:


#5

Well I made plenty of $$, so can’t complain…what does worry me is 1) bitmain put out so many toasters and so centralized in mining pow-scrypt that NOW with the price dump…THE LATEST AVAILABLE PRODUCT for pow scrypt makes below:

10c a day, after electric ( i should not complain it was -19c a few days back on low LTC price)

|24 hours|0.02325045 LTC|2.79 USD|2.69 USD|0.10 USD|
|7 days|0.16275318 LTC|19.53 USD|18.82 USD|0.71 USD|
|30 days|0.69751362 LTC|83.70 USD|80.64 USD|3.06 USD|

thus, CAN a protocol like pow-scrypt survive with high equipment prices…the asic maker like last nov till march mining and driving dificulty up by 50% or more before releasing pre-orders end of march 2018?

and again, they continue to try and sell an L3+ for like $520 and it makes 10c a day?

Myself, punted to my other ‘hoard’ of stuff LISK pos coin at 8,000 Lisk that is 80 LISK staking a month

if it gets back to 10 bucks…seems a better way to mine IMHO,

so yeah, people, large pow miners like me, MAY get a hobby unit to heat the basement for fun

but we are out of any long term big miner risks now…bitmain has gamed all asic’s to a point it no longer

makes any sense and further centralization of mining power. Indeed what would happen if bitmain

has the ‘supposed’ 1.5gh pow-scrypt miner on the shelf? and did the usual we will mine it for 4-5 months

over the summer and let you purchase a pre-order for late fall say…at these prices …sh*t everyone will walk

to another coin and away from pow-scrypt…monopolies tend to sh*t in their own ecosystem…so bitmain could

find themselves with NO customers and a much more weak LTC in value and useage as a result…will be

damn hard to support LTC if Bitmain becomes the main winner in all this…again, I’m probably walking…

I always liked being a ‘hobby miner’ anyway…time to go back


#6

Well Bitmain is everything we wanted in a mining company: They ship equipment, they build fast stuff, they haven’t stolen anyone’s bitcoin. Granted they do have their problems in building impossible to service equipment, not releasing any documentation, ignoring users, mining with their own hardware, and dumping equipment on the market but that comes with the business.

So eh. I fiddle with their equipment from time to time, but overall the boards and chips are of such low repair quality that it’s not worth the time to fix them. Sad, because they do break from time to time.


#7

On the old forum, there was a post from me complaining about unprofitable mining at $2

If you’re all in with hardware already just keep mining even if you lose money at first


#8

Reminds me of an old post I came across where a guy bought a hundred coins at $15 and dumped at 12 because of FUD (though clearly you’re more competent than him.) He was cryin’ and stuff thinking he had been taken advantage of in some sort of ponzi.

As long as mining is cheaper than buying, I’ll mine at a loss. I stick to bitcoin and litecoin because I trust the projects long term. That guy didn’t have “faith” and it cost him.

Remember that your coins are worth more in the future than they are now. Your machine also mines less in the future. Therefore your work is worth more in the future than now.

That’s how I see it. I don’t sell LTC except to spend it. The dollar is a depreciating asset.


#9

ah…thats the rub…90% of miners now are L3+'s …and this supposedly top end machine isy making 35c a day…thus when difficulty goes down …everyone turns machines back on …35c a day…when price goes up…everyone turns off still 35c a day

if all the same… no way to make a profit unless price of LTC pumps to more than 200 bucks so we can make more than a buck a day

my fear (likely) bitmain has the new ‘supposed’ pow scrypt LTC miner at 3x the L3+ (1,500mh) and the same watts about (800 watts)

thus ALL EXISTING MINERS OF POW SCRYPT will be ‘wiped’ off the playing board

IF, bitmain does the usual and releases this as a pre-order for 4 months in the future and also does the usual and mines them in data halls for 4 months over the summer

well, that would pretty much cook the goose IMHO, I mean fall rolls around, and Bitmain has been mining most of the network with new equipment…would you invest in pow scrypt units to make bitmain money?

they did this rinse/wash/repeat with pre-orders from Nov 2017 till March 2017 driving up difficulty by them
selves by about 100%…its a neat trick

question is will people play, or just go FU and walk from the scrypt pow protocol

I’m out of any big time mining till this is resolved in some manner that makes sense, no longer gonna do this

dance…and it is not just pow scrypt…the other ASIC flavors is the same game with Bitmain
anyway, we will see but not looking good at the moment if the only thing that can save us is a frigging

huge price pump…last time that happened …bitmain kept my equip then i had on order and mined it for
6 weeks on a ‘firmware’ problem (june 2017) the stuff arrived with Jan 2017 firmware and worked fine

monopolies eventually fail on over-reach…seems the case here soon…

my 2c worth

brad


#10

Just mine until the hardware fails or it becomes so obsolete it should be repurposed. Eventually lightning will go live and the new multi network will need much more capacity. Also the supply and reward are shrinking. I’m sure the domain investors where crying during the dot com bubble. Those that hodl were rewarded though


#11

What’s that mean? I know very little of the technical implementation of the lightning thing beyond what’s in those cartoony youtube video and those Alice-Bob diagrams on some blogs.


#12

The main thing is payment channels. If bitcoin nodes have payment channels and litecoin has payment channels, money can be routed across multiple chains and even off chain. This will make some interesting things possible like atomic swaps. You trade btc for ltc without much of a third party and vice versa. Same idea with ethereum’s raiden network. Basically the holy grail of transaction scaling.


#13

sorry if as I suspect bitmain has a miner 3x the capacity (the supposed 1.5gh unit at around same watts as L3+ or 800 watts)

if such is so, you may be right but EVERY CURRENT GENERATION MINER IN THE WORLD NOW FOR POW SCRYPT will be so far behind the difficulty curve…they won’t mine this lightning network…too far down the pike…by the time they ramp that up in a year or so

just my view…close…but not gonna happen…not at 35c per day L3+ units as of now anyway…they just won’t last long enough, with difficulty…if any of the above I’m guessing …comes to pass

we will be the first to know, chump or champ

brad


#14

Computer hardware has always been centralized. It’s part of the game. If you build a data center, you have to cycle machines out as they become too slow. Though, my website has passed a decade on hardware, so not a perfect comparison.

I once looked into the cost of doing an asic tape out for TPU not crypto, price around 100 million usd. So unless you got that, have to play the game. Just hoard as much as you can even if burning more electricity than it seems worth. Recently seen a proof of concept for atomic swaps https://github.com/ExchangeUnion/Lightning-Swap-PoC

Only other option is to sell the hardware and become a speculator which is basically unavoidable unless you’ve reached mining farm capacity. We had the same complaints when GPU become a thing and again with asics. Though personally, I prefer to keep a few old rigs and solo mine lottery style. I still have a few first gen asics. :slight_smile:


#15

Re: Dot com bubble. Most of those stocks went to zero as companies went out of business. The real problem though was people who got say ten million in stock options (worth 10m), then did not pay the taxes on that 10m (3m or so) by selling some of the stock because it was all going to go up.

Then when the company imploded a few months later and the stock went to 0, they found they still owed 3m to the IRS at the end of the year. Oh and they had no job because the company blew up.

Oh and the IRS doesn’t take IOUs. Dot.com times were… interesting. This is why you should always make sure to cover expenses and taxes as they accrue.


#16

That’s good advice. I’m not sure the tax part is true. In the US, you pay taxes after selling. So if the company is gone overnight, that would be written off as a loss lowering other taxable income. I’m no tax expert though.

My argument is that some debt and losses in the short term, may prove to be highly profitable in the long term. If I kept more of those $2 LTC, I could be on an island sipping some fancy cocktail. :wink: In truth, I think we are still in the early phase of crypto.

Don’t let a little debt cloud the vision for the future. Still most ICOs will fail just like most dot com businesses never survived the bubble. Got to the ride the waves :ocean:


#17

Technically in the US you pay taxes when you receive an item of value: When I mine a bitcoin I need to pay taxes on the amount mined when it is mined based on the value at the time it was mined. Same for stock options: If I am given stock options and I have control over them then I owe taxes on the value of the options when I receive control of them.

If they later go to zero I can sell them at a “loss” and deduct a portion of that against CG profits over the next few years but I still have to pay taxes on the initial value. It’s a nasty little trap.


#18

A while ago I heard someone talking about how the price would continue to fall since miners will now need to sell more of their coins to cover their expenses. I talked to a few miners who confirmed that they are in fact doing that.

Anyone else out their being force to sell coins to cover expenses?


#19

Actually, 90% of the miners still able to mine scrypt-pow all come from Bitmain. They are the Bitmain L3+'s and all are mining at a loss. In that NO ONE has an advantage in that they are all the same 500mh 800w machines…the price lost per day ranges from 12c a day with really cheap elec and in my case at 14c kwh elec
at a data hall with rent…it is 64c a day

the catch is they ALL are losing money, the other catch is when diff goes up…they go off .if diff goes down

they go off…but because all the machines are the same…the same loss occurs…eventually even for the low

end elec cost users of these…it won’t pay to run…DIFFICULTY will be at a point where the machines will not

make sense to turn on at these prices…i mean in my case if LTC hit like 160 USD I"d make 30 bucks over electric costs of 1,290.27

so can scrypt pow survive it bitmain (at 20% the cost say per machine and the cheap elec it has) if bitmain i

the only group left mining pow scrypt and LTC?

myself in this unique situation I think everyone will walk and LTC and scrypt-pow coins will all tank further

in price…I certainly will not watch Bitmain alone drive up difficulty say 30% over the summer with this

going on and get a pre-order unit (assuming they have new stuff) paid now for say a late fall arrival

I’ll walk away to another algo coin or just HODL…so this is new and interesting .the whole works could

blow up…no on has an advantage to mine…if they all have the same equip and eventually electric

costs even the cheap rates all are not worth making…just following the difficulty as machines go off

and on every 3 days for LTC difficulty will get old indeed…if at the most you pop back up an break

even for electric…all will go off at the same time…bitmain will pick up the slack…and folk IMHO will walk

away from pow-scrypt and LTC to other algo coins


#20

Just another point of view. I know about miners that don’t care about prices, they just want litecoins to hold, they spend their own money paying electricity.

And there is places in the world where the electricity is cheaper than yours so, they will continue with the machines on regardless of the price.